Inglese

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[Missing in Pakistan - Duration 00:24:00:03 - Producer: Ziad Zafar]

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[Prayer call]

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Journalist

like most military dictatorships

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Pakistan has a dismal human rights record

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[Prayer call]

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For years, the people of Pakistan have suffered humiliation

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and widespread violation of their civil and political rights.

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Violence against women and minority groups has been endemic

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In a system prone to persecution and witch-hunts.

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But Pakistan's involvement in America's war on terror

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has given these violations an entirely new dimension

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International Human Rights organisations

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claim that the war has given the military government in Islamabad

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an effective smokescreen to authorize arbitrary detention, torture

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and has lead to the adoption of a sinister new tactic in dealing with dissent.

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They say it sponsored kidnapping

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The Pakistani government has flatly denied the accusations.

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But in recent years, hundreds of people have just disappeared.

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They are believed to be in the custody of Pakistan's intelligence agencies

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Some surface in Guantanamo Bay Others - are not so lucky.

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They remain missing in Pakistan

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[Veiled lady: At least tell me what his fault was?]

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[Old lady: For Allah's sake, give me back my son]

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[MISSING IN PAKISTAN]

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Anjelicka Pathak - Amnesty International

We know that about 2/3 of the people in Guantanamao Bay

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Anjelicka Pathak - Amnesty International

were handed through unlawfully by Pakistan to US custody.

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There are numerous people who have disappeared

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in various secret sites around the world

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and there are many, an unknown number of people

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who have disappeared in Pakistan itself.

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So it is not possible to give an exact number. But every one of them is one too many

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Wasi Zafar - Pakistani Minister for Law, HR and Justice

This is just a novel, it is just a novel. This is, this is not ... this is a lie

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Journalist

Whose lie

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Wasi Zafar

what is it? This is Amnesty International's lie

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Ali Dayan - Human Rights Watch

Now, this is, in the vast array of Human Rights violations

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that we have documented in Pakistan -

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this development is a new one. We know that

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disappearances, as a form of law-enforcement

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is something that has been introduced to Pakistan post the war on terror

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which means that the US has had a - well, an absolutely crucial role to play

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Journalist

Yes, those people

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Wasi Zafar - Pakistani Minister for Law, HR and Justice

No these are pictures, just pictures

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Journalist

these are real people these are people

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W. Zafar

Nooo! Listen, no no listen, what is happening.

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Persons like - and children like you who exploit the things -

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these persons normally go for terrorism,

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they run away from their houses, they join some organisations,

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they disappear by themselves.

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Journalist

But behind the pictures exist real human stories

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like that of Amina Masood, a 42-year old college teacher and mother of 3.

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Her husband Masood went missing 2 years ago and has not been seen since.

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An engineer by profession,

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Masood was a born-again Muslim preacher,

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but Amina insists he was not linked to any political group.

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She says she knew instantly that he had been abducted by intelligence agencies

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Amina Masood

I was assuming it from the beginning,

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because those where the days when the newspapers were full of news like this

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The government was picking so many thousands of people - of like -that kind of appeals.

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And they were not concerned they weren't picking up the right people -

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or the wrong people.

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All they had to, they had to please Washington and they had to please, you know

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Bush and Blair. That was the new purpose of our government.

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If anything - anything wrong happened to Masood

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If - if any damage to his health would have come

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I'm not going to forgive.

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As long as I am alive I'm not going to forgive.

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I'm going to ask those people, They're responsible for it.

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And why, why such a good person is tortured?

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Why such a good person is picked up and kept in illegal custody?

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And the family doesn't even know the children do not even know why

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and why our father and when and when and for how long?

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It's a series of question marks.

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I must find him at all cost. I must find him wherever he is,

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I must snatch him back

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From that day onwards I - I never rested.

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Journalist

Though no government official would help her

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Amina has worked at Amnesty to find her husband

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She found a joint action forum and brought the other 100's of families like hers

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Women chanting (in Urdu)

[Give us back our loved ones]

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Journalist

to protest the illegal detention of their relatives

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But when they tried to protest

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outside the headquarters of Pakistan's military establishment,

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they were told to go home or face dire consequences

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Man

Just give me one good reason (?)

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Journalist

When they persisted the protest was broken up

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and many were arrested including Amina's 16-year old son Mohamed

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Amina Masood

[Leave my son alone]

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Amina Masood

[Let my son go]

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Police Officer

[Get to the side]

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[shouts]

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[Man: What are you doing... Let him wear his clothes]

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Mohamed:

[Help me ... Help me!]

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Police Officer:

[Throw him inside ... spoilt brat]

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Mohamed

[Why wont anyone help me - Why wont anyone help me?]

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Amina

[I want my son right now.]

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[my son, I want him back right now]

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Amina's daughter

[Ma, please save my brother]

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[please bring him back]

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[Ma, please save my brother]

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Amina

[Why did you strip him?]

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[Bastards! die die die, I hope you all die]

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Amina and daughter

[Bastards! die die die, I hope you all die]

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Amina

[I hope God doesn't grant you a funeral]

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[I pray he doesn't grant you anything]

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[I hope you all die]

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[Dont you dare touch my children]

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Amina Masood

Like a daughter of the nation, is that what I deserved?

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Was that such a big crime to protest, to ask about my husband, that when he's going to return

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and what crime he has done? At least I should know what crime he has done

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why he's being kept away from us

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Do we have no basic rights?

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Wasi Zafar - Pakistani Minister for Law, Human Rights and Justice

Yes, these are baseless, these are - No, no, these are exaggerated. Exaggerated

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The word business I am saying [?] - You are saying the word business

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I have not used the word until now. You are using the word business

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I am saying, these are exaggerated

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Ali Dayan – HRW

Pakistan has an extensive intelligence apparatus, a security apparatus

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right down the neighbourhood level in Pakistan,

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you have intelligence agency monitoring.

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This is a fact of life in Pakistan there is no way round this and I think

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that we are far beyond the point in any analysis of Pakistan

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or even in any sort of cursory, basic look at Pakistan

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to deny this, no one denies this, even the military doesn't deny this.

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They are very clear about the fact that they have that sort of presence

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General (retd) Hameed Gul - Former Chief of ISI (1987-90)

You know, they indulge in these things

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and there are excesses and they do take place in every society.

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For instance about CIA at one point it was said: "that's invisible government" -

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a book was written on them.

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And similarly all the intelligence agencies - er, they have a tendency,

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which is because their job is of a clandestine nature

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they tend to cross the limits and they've got to be reined in

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and as best as I could, I tried to educate my people,

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to hold them back and even to admonish them on these instances

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Ali Dayan – HRW

We have documented at Human Rights Watch

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enough cases of torture in the custody of the police, the Pakistani police,

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and of military intelligence agencies to know that that's just a fact of life,

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that's how it is, that is what happens here.

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Torture is widespread.

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Asma Jahangir - UN special rapporteur on Torture

and there is huge evidence, overwhelming,

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that the government of Pakistan is maintaining illegal detention centers

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where torture goes on as a routine.

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Journalist:

Ali Hassan was kept in a torture cell for 3 months

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and interrogated jointly by American and Pakistani intelligence agents

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Nervously [?], he agreed to speak to us

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but only if we didn't use his real name or show his face

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Ali Hassan' - Victim of enforced disappearance and torture

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[They blindfolded us and put hoods on our heads]

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[and then shoved us into a car]

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[when they opened our blindfolds we were in the cell]

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[it was a basement somewhere, thats all i could tell...]

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[They tortured us in different ways]

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[They used to cane the soles of my feet]

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[They would keep me tied up and wouldn't let me sleep...]

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[for up to five days at a stretch sometimes.]

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[I received electric shocks twice]

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[They would hook my finger up and attach a clip to my stomach and pass the current through that.

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[The first time it was unbearable... It felt like lots of people beating you with sticks.]

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[Then I would regain consciousness it didn't feel so bad. The first time was the worst.]

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[They kept asking me where I'd hidden the dynamite. I kept telling them i didn't know.]

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I've never even seen dynamite in real life... I've only ever seen it in the movies -]

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Aftab Sherpao - Pakistani Interior Minister: When you talk of the War on Terror

When you talk of the war on terror, I think - it's a different sort of a war.

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Here, you don't look - you all look - the damage they cause or the terror that they cause to the innocent people.

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We are in the mids of that sort of a situation where we are fighting a war against terror.

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Journalist

what you say is that some - if not as many as I suggested -

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that some basic liberties have been the casualty of this war on terror?

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Sherpao

What do you mean by some basic liberties have been--?

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Journalist

That certain human rights have been overlooked or trampled

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Sherpao

You are talking about the liberties of the terrorists?

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Journalist

of citizens

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Sherpao

of the terrorists?

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Abdul Hafeez Lakho - Human Rights Lawyer:

We are at zero point now

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All this is happening, yes. We are living as free citiens, which we are not

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I'm not moving or I'll be picked up - For what offence will I be picked up,

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What wrong? .... [?] which will displease somebody

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Iqbal Haider - Secretary General, Human rights Commission of Pakistan:

I don't find appropriate words

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to condemn this practice of disappearances in such a blatant manner

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and to make innocent people suffer and languish and subjected to torture.

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Oh my God, there can't be a greater inhuman barbary.

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This is not a Gestapo age

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Journalist

While there has been an expansion in media space in Pakistan

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attacks on journalists have increased in recent years

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The Committee to protect journalists, a New York-based watch-dog group,

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rated Pakistan among the top 3 countries where press freedom is endangered.

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Reporters on location [...?] Sanjay Kumar [?]

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shot footage of US fighter jets taking off from an air base from inside Pakistan

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one the government had denied was being used by the US.

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They were kept in illegal detention for 3 months and tortured.

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They were lucky to be released

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Woman

[It's ok, don't cry. Its alright now]

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Journalist

but are not since talking of their ordeal.

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Woman

[It's ok, don't cry darling. Its all alright now.]

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[everything is fine...]

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Tasnim Aslam - Pakistan Foreign Office Spokesperson

I'm not aware of any journalist being ehm. abducted or it has...

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Voices quoting names [?]

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Man

It goes on and journalists have been [...?] I can tell you that

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T.Aslam

I ah - I have not heard of any journalist Er, being harrassed

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I am not aware of any specific case - there was a case of one journalist

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who had disappeared - Hayatullah ... [sp?] He - er, unfortunately, that was very sad

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his dead body was later recovered

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Journalist

Journalist Hayatullah Khan [sp?] took a photograph of something

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Pakistan's government said was never there: wreckage of the US hell fire missile

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that destroyed a house in Pakistan's tribal area, killing several Pakistani civilians

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and one suspected Al Qaida militant

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Shouts

[Tyrants! Answer for the blood you have shed!]

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Journalist

But there are more cases than the Foreign Office is willing to talk about -

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countless cases of harassment and detention of journalists have been documented.

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Shouts

[Stop aggression against journalists]

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Journalist

There has been a vociferous outcry by journalists and members of civil society

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[Police attack on the office of Geo News - 19 March 2007]

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Journalist

but attacks on the press have continued.

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General [retd] Hameed Gul - Former Chief of ISI (1986-90)

You know that the international community does not come down hard upon it.

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The Americans have chosen to remain quiet on this because they have - they are setting the example,

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they are setting the tone: ehm, they picked up people,

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taken them to Gunatanamo Bay and to Abu Grahib.

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Stories are out, and torture camps in Kandahar and [...?] and all the stories are there.

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So basically, as the world leader, world leader and flag carrier in Human Rights

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America excels.

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When it is the world leader of the Human Rights

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then obviously the small minions who are our rulers - they can go to any extent.

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Justice Nasir Aslam Zahid - Former Supreme Court Judge

If at all, the aid would be stopped to Pakistan by the US and other agencies,

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it would not be on account of Human Rights' violation. It will be for other reasons.

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It will be a policy decision will be taken - but not ditch Pakistan [?]

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They will say: "Pakistan is no longer a country which is required in this process"

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Or "Pakistan has gone, has done enough for our victory in Afghanistan".

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And I think Pakistan will be punished for that, and not for Human Rights violation.

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[Amina Masood filed a legal petition on behalf of nearly a hundred families of missing people asking the courts to help find their loved ones -]

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[Pakistan's top judge, Chief Justice Iftikhar Chaudry, took up the case and called the military government to account for ist role in enforced disappearances.]

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[In March 2007, while the case was being heard, General Musharraf dismissed the Chief Justice and put him under house arrest.

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[The country exploded in a spate of violent protests that almost brought down Musharraf's rule...]

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[Rally voices mainly in Urdu, with "Go Musharraf Go" in En. ]

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TV journalist

The capital of Pakistan, Islamabad, is a battlefield today, as thousands have come out to protest

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the Chief [....?] deposed - Supreme Justice Chaudry Iftikhar.

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It is being widely seen as an autocratic assault on the judiciary while increasingly

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Dictatorial [....?]

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Civil society has been incensed by images of the Supreme Court Justice being dragged by his hair

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and man-handled by a low police officer.

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Thousands continue to protest across the country - Dozens have been arrested

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Judges have left their benches, lawyers refused to plead cases,

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the opposition parties are united in condemnation and the press has gone to assault.

[00:17:31.00]

A storm is brewing in Pakistan as the military dictator romanced [?] by the West

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now seems to be losing his grip

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[rally voices with "Go Musharraf Go"]

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[The White House declined to comment on the political crisis, terming it:]

[00:17:43.00]

["An internal matter of the people of Pakistan"]

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Roedad Khan - Environmentalist and retired Civil Servant

Why you organize here this? The land of Madison, the land of Jefferson,

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people who, who believed in government of the people by the people for the people -

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Why are they supporting [....?] Why are they supporting [...?] who is [...?] in Pakistan?

[00:18:07.10]

They have one rule for themselves, they have another rule for the people of Pakistan

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that does out democracy. Why does democracy end here? [?]

[00:18:16.20]

Why don't they apply democracy to Pakistan?

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[applause]

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Bush

Thank you all.

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[applause]

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Bush

Thanks, thanks for the warm welcome.

[00:18:52.00]

Our strategy to protect America is based on a clear premiss:

[00:18:56.10]

the security of our nation depends on the advance of liberty in other nations.

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In September 11, 2001, we saw that

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the problems originating in a failed and oppresive state 7'000 miles away

[00:19:10.20]

could bring murder and destruction to our country. We saw that dictatorships shelter terrorists,

[00:19:18.10]

feed resentment and radicalism and threaten the security of free nations.

[00:19:24.10]

Democracies replace resentment with hope.

[00:19:28.10]

Democracies respect the rights of their citizens and their neighbours,

[00:19:31.20]

Democracies join the fight against terror.

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And so America's committed to an historic, long term goal:

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to secure the peace of the world, we seek the end of tyranny in our world.

[00:19:47.00]

[The United State of America has consistently supported successive military dictatorships in Pakistan over a period of sixty years]

[00:19:58.20]

[Countrywide protests for missing people and in support of an indipendent judiciary have persisted for three months after the dismissal of the Chief Justice.]

[00:20:04.20]

[Over forty-five people have lost their lives in the ensuing political violence

[00:20:12.20]

[REPORTED CASES OF ENFORCED DISAPPEARANCE IN PAKISTAN AFTER 2001. SOURCE: HUMAN RIGHTS COMMISSION OF PAKISTAN [HRCP] - followed by their names]

[00:20:29.10]

Ejaz Ahsan Human Rights Commissioner of Pakistan

... people you are talking about [....?] numbers, these are people

[00:20:37.20]

Man (check who)

The intelligence agencies have the audacity to be [?... ] to be the government officials

[00:20:42.20]

that nobody is in our custody.

[00:20:52.00]

Wazi Zafar:

Most of them, for erh, these are, they are in war in terrorism

[00:21:03.00]

Man [check]:

This is not done, this is not acceptable. This is not tolerable

[00:21:08.20]

How dare you say that we can disclothe the child?

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Aftab Sherpao:

Erh, I'm also concerned.

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Everyone is concerned if someone makes a and cry about a missing person.

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We are all concerned in this sense.

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Journalist

But what measures is the government taking specificly in the case of missing people, to try and trace them...

[00:21:31.00]

Sherpao

What can the government do?

[00:21:31.00]

The government can, you know, find out - er, if he belongs to a province,

[00:21:36.00]

from the provincial government, from others

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Journalist

... officers [?]

[00:21:39.25]

Sherpao

Sorry?

[00:21:40.10]

Journ.

it's the government's job.

[00:21:40.10]

Sherpao

it's the government's [...?]

[00:21:42.10]

No, when it is about - we [notice that they're gone -?]

[00:21:50.00]

Ali Dayan

We cannot have a situation where - just because you are the armed party -

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means you can come in, kidnap me or kill me, with no fear

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of any kind of law coming to bear on you.

[00:22:20.20]

Roedad Khan

there is hope for missing people

[00:22:22.00]

There is hope for women in this country

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There is hope for the people of Pakistan

[00:22:26.00]

Do have not bitterness

[00:22:27.30]

The power of the powerless

[00:22:29.20]

You will see the power of the powerless. Very soon.

Francese

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[Missing in Pakistan / Disparaître au Pakistan- Durés 00:24:00:03 - Réalisateur: Ziad Zafar]

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[Appel à la prière]

[00:00:23.10]

Journaliste

Comme la plupart des dictatures militaires

[00:00:25.10]

Le Pakistan a un lamentable palmarès en Droits Humains

[00:00:27.13]

[Appel à la prière]

[00:00:29.06]

Depuis des années, les Pakistanais subissent des humiliations

[00:00:32.10]

et de vastes violations de leurs droits civiques et politiques.

[00:00:37,29]

La violence contres les femmes et lesminorités est endémique

[00:00:40.27]

dans un système tendant à la persécution et aux chasses aux sorcières.

[00:00:44.19]

Mais l'engagement du Pakistan dans la "guerre contre la terreur" de l'Amérique

[00:00:47.24]

a conféré à ces violations une dimension entièrement nouvell.

[00:00:50.28]

Les organisations internationales pour la protection des Droits Humains

[00:00:52.24]

affirment que cette guerre a offert au gouvernement militaire d'Islamabad

[00:00:55.17]

un rideau de fumée efficace pour autoriser la détention arbitraire, la torture

[00:00:59.19]

et a mené à l'adoption de'une nouvelle tactique sinistre dans l'affrontement de l'opposition.

[00:01:04.021]

On dit que c'est des enlèvements sur commande

[00:01:09.24]

Le gouvernement pakistanais a toujours nié les accusations en bloc.

[00:01:12.17

Mais ces dernières années, des centaines de personns ont simplement disparu.

[00:01:17.29]

On croit qu'ils sont détenus par les services secrets pakistanais.

[00:01:27.16]

Certains réapparaissent à Guantanamo Bay. D'autres ont moins de chance.

[00:01:33.17]

Ils restent disparus au Pakistan.

[00:01:35.10]

[Femme voilée: Au moins, dites-moi ce qu'il a fait de mal?]

[00:01:38.14]

[Femme âgée: Pour l'amour de Dieu, rendez-moi mon fils]

[00:01:45.15]

[DISPARAÎTRE AU PAKISTAN]

[00:01:50.22]

Anjelicka Pathak - Amnesty International

Nous savons qu'environ 2/3 des gens de Guantanamo Bay

[00:01:53.17]

Anjelicka Pathak - Amnesty International

ont été remis illégalement par la Pakistan aux Etats-Unis.

[00:01:57.17]

Beaucoup de gens ont disparu

[00:01:59.27]

et sont détenus dans plusieurs sites secrets dans le mone ntier.

[00:02:02.05]

Et beaucoup de personnes – on ne connaît pas le nombre exact -

[00:02:05.00]

ont disparu au Pakistan même.

[[00:02:07.02]

Il est donc impossible de donner un chiffre précis. Mais chacune d'elle est une de trop.

[00:02:11.26]

Wasi Zafar – Ministre pakistanais du Droit, des Droits Humains et de la Justice

C'est du roman, rien que cu roman. C'est, ce n'est pas .... c'est un mensonge.

[00:02:20.01]

Journaliste

Le mensonge de qui?

[00:02:20.17]

Wasi Zafar

Qu'est-ce que c'est? C'est le mensonge d'Amnesty International.

[00:02:23.00]

Ali Dayan - Human Rights Watch

Dans la vaste gamme de violations des Droits Humains

[00:0230.00]

que nous avons recensées au Pakistan -

[00:02:32.10]

ceci est un nouvau développement. Nous savons que

[00:02:38.04]

les disparitions, comme forme de maintien de l'ordre

[00:02:43.25]

sont un phénomène qui a été introduit au Pakistan après la guerre au terrorisme

[00:02:49.10]

ce qui veut dire que les USA ont eu – ont joué un rôle absolument crucial.

[00:03:01.26]

Journaliste

Oui, ces personnes

[00:03:04.12]

Wasi Zafar - Pakistani Minister for Law, HR and Justice

Non, ce sont des photos, rien que des photos

[00:03:07.06]

Journaliste

Ce sont des personnes réelles, ce sont des prsonnes

[00:03:08.08]

W. Zafar

Noooon! Nonnon, Ecoutez-moi, écoutez ce qui se passe.

[00:03:13.10]

Les personnes comme – et les enfants comme vous qui exploitent les choses -

[00:03:18.16]

ces personnes choisissent normalement terrorisme

[00:03:23.50]

elles fuguent, rejoignent certaines organisations

[00:03:27.12]

elles disparaissent d'elles-mêmes.

[00:03:30.25]

Journaliste

Mais derrière les photos, il y a de réelles histoires humaines

[00:03:34.07]

comme celle d'Amina Masood, une enseignante universitaire de 42 ans, mère de 3 enfants.

[00:03:40.13]

Son mari Masood a disparu il y a 2 ans et personne ne l'a plus vu depuis.

[00:03:46.30]

Ingénieur de profession,

[00:03:48.10]

Masood était un prédicateur musulman "born again" (check),

[00:03:51.00]

mais Amina affirme qu'il n'était lié à aucun groupe politique.

[00:03:54.00]

Elle dit qu'elle a su tout de suite qu'il avait été enlevé par les services secrets

[00:03:58.10]

Amina Masood

Je l'ai pensé dès le début,

[00:04:01.00]

parce qu'alors, les journaux étaient pleins de nouvelles comme ça

[00:04:07.10]

Le gouvernement prélevaient des milliers de gens – comme danse ce genre d'appels.

[00:04:16.10]

Et ça leur était égal s'ils prélevaient les gens justes -

[00:04:20.00]

ou s'ils se trompaient.

[00:04:22.10]

Ils devaient seulement contenter Washington et contenterd, vous savez,

[00:04:26.10]

Bush et Blair. C'était devenu le nouveau but de notre gouvernement.

[00:04:30.20]

S'il est arrivé quoi que ce soit – quoi que ce soit de mal à Masood

[00:04:33.20]

Si il a été atteint dans sa santé

[00:04:38.10]

Je ne pardonnerai pas.

[00:04:42.00]

Tant que je vivrai, je ne pardonnerai pas.

[00:04:45.20]

Je vais poser des questions à ces gens. Ils en sont responsables.

[00:04:48.20]

Et pourquoi, pourquoi une personne aussi bonne est torturée?

[00:04:52.00]

Pourquoi une personne aussi bonne est prélevée et est détenue illégalement?

[00:04:56.00]

Et la famille ne sait même pas, les enfants ne savent pas pourquoi

[00:05:01.00]

et pourquoi notre père et quand, et quand, t où, et pour combien de temps?

[00:05:06.00]

C'est une série de points d'interrogation.

[00:05:01.00]

Je dois le trouver, à tout prix. Je dois le trouver, où qu'il soit.

[00:05:14.00]

Je dois le leur arracher et le ramener

[00:05:16.10]

Depuis ce jour là, je – je n'ai plus eu de repos.

[00:05:19.30]

Journaliste

Même si aucun fonctionnaire du gouvernement n'a voulu l'aider

[00:05:21.00]

Amina s'est adressée à Amnesty pour trouver son mari

[00:05:24.10]

Elle a trouvé (?) un forum d'action commune et y a rassemblé des centaines de familles comme la sienne

[00:05:27.00]

Women chanting (in Urdu)

[Rendez-nous nos chers parents]

[00:05:28.20]

Journaliste

pour protester contre la détention illégales de leurs parents

[00:05:32.20]

Mais quand ils ont essayé de manifester

[00:05:34.00]

devant le quartier général du pouvoir militaire pakistanais,

[00:05:36.20]

on leur a dit de rentrer chez eux, sous peine de conséquences sinistres

[00:05:40.00]

Homme

Donnez-moi une seule bonne raison (?)

[00:05:44.00]

Journaliste

Quand ils ont continué, la manifestation a été dispersée

[00:05:46.20]

et beaucoup de gens ont été arrêtés, y compris le fils d'Amina, Mohamed, 17 ans

[00:06:04.00]

Amina Masood

]Ne touchez pas mon fils]

[00:06:06.00]

Amina Masood

[Lâchez mon fils]

[00:06:09.00]

Policier

[Ecartez-vous]

[Get to the side]

[[00:06:11.10]

[cris]

[00:06:17.20]

[Homme: Que faites-vous... Laissez-lui ses habits]

[[00:06:30.00]

Mohamed:

[Aidez-moi... aidez-moi!]

[00:06:33.00]

Policier:

[Jetant Mohamed dans le camion ... sale enfant gâté]

[00:06:41.00]

Mohamed

[Pourquoi personne ne m'aide – Pourquoi personne ne m'aide?]

[00:06:56.20]

Amina

[Je veux mon fils – tout de suite]

[00:06:58.20]

[Mon fils – Je le reveux tout de suite]

[00:07:01.20]

La fille d'Amina

[Maman, sauve mon frère, s'il te plaît]

[00:07:02.20]

[ramène-le, s'il te plaît]

[00:07:07.20]

[Maman, sauve mon frère, s'il te plaît]

[00:07:09.00]

Amina

[Pourquoi l'avez-vous déshabillé]

[00:07:11.00]

[Salauds! Mourez, mourez, mourez – j'espère que vous mourrez tous]

[00:07:13.00]

Amina and daughter

[Salauds! Mourez, mourez, mourez – j'espère que vous mourrez tous]

[00:07:16.20]

Amina

[J'espère que Dieu ne vous accordera pas d'enterrement]

[00:07:19.00]

[Je prie pour qu'il ne vous accorde rien]

[00:07:22.10]

[J'espère que vous mourrez tous]

[00:07:26.00]

[N'osez pas toucher mes enfants]

[00:07:30.10]

Amina Masood

Comme fille de la nation, est-ce que je méritais ça?

[00:07:35.20]

Manifester, poser des questions sur mon mari, demander quand il reviendra – était-ce un tel crime?

[00:07:41.10]

et de quoi il est coupable? Au moins, je devrais savoir de quoi il est coupable

[00:07:46.00]

pourquoi on le garde loin de nous

[00:07:53.30]

N'avons-nous pas de droits fondamentaux?

[00:07:58.20]

Wasi Zafar – Ministre pakistanais du Droit, des Droits Humains et de la Justice

Oui, ces accusations sont sans fondements – Non non, elles sont exagérées, exagérées.

[00:08:06.10]

Le mot affaires – c'est vous qui utilisez le mot affaires

[00:08:09.00]

Jusqu'à maintenant, je n'ai pas utilisé ce mot. C'est vous qui utilisez le mot affaires

[00:08:14.00]

Je dis que ces accusations sont exagérées

[00:08:15.30]

Ali Dayan – HRW

Le Pakistan a un vaste système de services secrets, de sécurité

[00:08:22.20]

Jusqu'au niveau du quartier, au Pakistan,

[00:08:26.10]

il y a une surveillance des services secrets

[00:08:31.00]

C'est un fait de la vie au Pakistan, un fait incontournable, et je crois

[00:08:36.00]

que nous avons de loin dépassé le point, dans une quelconque analyse du Pakistan

[00:08:40.10]

ou même dans n'importe quel regard rapide, superficiel, porté sur le Pakistan

[00:08:44.20]

où l'on pouvait le nier. Personne ne le nie, même le pouvoir militaire ne le nie pas.

[00:08:49.00]

Ils disent très clairement qu'ils ont cette sorte de présence

[00:08:53.00]

Général (à la retraite) Hameed Gul – Ex-chef de l'ISI (1987-90)

Vous savez, ils se laissent aller à ces choses

[00:08:56.00]

Et il y a des excès, et ils se produisent dans toutes les sociétés.

[00:09:00.00]

Par exemple, on a dit une fois de la CIA que c'était "un gouvernement invisible" -

[00:09:05.00]

on a écrit un livre sur eux.

[00:09:07.00]

Semblablement, tous les services secrets – euh, ont une tendance

[00:09:12.00]

due à la nature clandestine de leur travail

[00:09:16.00]

ils tendent à dépasser les limites, et il faut les retenir

[00:09:20.00]

du mieux que j'ai pu, j'ai essayé d'éduques mes gens,

[00:09:23.20]

de les retenir, et même de leur faire des remontrances dans des cas comme celui-ci.

[00:09:29.02]

Ali Dayan – HRW

A Human Rights Watch, nous avons documenté

[00:09:31.30]

assez de cas de torture de personne sous la garde de la police pakistanaise,

[00:09:37.00]

et des services secrets de l'armée, pour savoir que c'est simplement un fait de lavie,

[00:09:40.20]

c'est comme ça, c'est ce qui se passe ici.

[00:09:43.20]

La torture est répandue

[00:09:45.30]

Asma Jahangir – Rapporteure spéciale de l'ONU sur la Torture

Et il y a beaucoup de preuves, énormément de preuves,

[00:09:50.10]

que le gouvernement pakistanais a des centres illégaux de détention

[00:09:54.30]

où la torture est de routine.

[00:10:01.10]

Journaliste:

Ali Hassan a été détenu dans une cellule de torture pendant 3 mois

[00:10:03.20]

et interrogé à la fois par des agents des services secrets américains et pakistanais

[00:10:08.00]

Nerveusement (?), il a accepté de nous parler

[00:10:11.20]

mais seulement si nous n'utilisions pas son vrai non, et si nous ne montrions pas son visage

[00:10:14.00]

Ali Hassan - victime de disparition forcée et de torture

[00:10:17.00]

[Il nous ont bandé les yeux et nous ont mis des capuchons]

[00:10:19.00]

[et ils nous ont poussés dans une voitire]

[00:10:21.30]

[quand ils nous ont enlevé les bandeaux nous étions dans la cellule]

[00:10:25.20]

[c'était en sous-sol quelque part, c'est tout ce que je peux dire...]

[00:10:29.20]

[Ils nous ont torturé de différentes mainères]

[00:10:33.00]

[Ils m'ont donné des coups de cane sur la plante des pieds]

[00:10:37.20]

[Ils me ligotaient et ne me laissaient pas dormir...]

[00:10:40.00]

[parfois pendant jusqu'à 5-6 jours.]

[00:10:42.10]

[Deux fois, ils m'ont fait des électrochocs]

[00:10:45.20]

[Ils branchaient le courant à mon doigt et attachaient une pince à mon estomac, puis faisaient passer le courant par là.]

[00:10:56.10]

[La première fois, c'était unsupportable, c'était comme si des tas de gens te flanquaiend des coups de bâton.]

[00:11:04.10]

[Puis je reprenais connaissance, ce n'était pas si terrible. La première fois était la pire.]

[00:11:15.10][Ils continuaient à me demander oÙ j'avais caché la dynamite. Je continuais à leur dire que je ne savais pas.]

[00:11:19.20]

Je n'ai jamais vu de dynamite dans la vie réelle... seulement au cinéma -]

[00:11:26.00]

Aftab Sherpao – Ministre de l'Intérieur du Pakistan: Quand vous parlez de la Guerre contre le terrorisme -

Quand vous parlez de la Guerre contre le terrorisme, je crois – c'est une différente sorte de guerre.

[00:11:33.10]

Ici, vous ne considérez pas – vous considérez tout – les dégâtsou la terreur qu'ils causent aux innocents.

[00:11:43.00]

Nous sommes en plein dans une espèce de situation de guerre contre le terrorisme.

[00:11:51.00]

Journaliste

Vous dites que certaines libertés – même si moins nombreuses que je ne le suggérais -

[00:11:55.20]

que certaines libertés fondamentales ont été victimes de cette guerre contre le terrorisme?

[00:12:00.20]

Sherpao

Qu'entendez-vous quand vous dites que certaines libertés fondamentales ont été...=

[00:12:03.10]

Journaliste

Que certains droits humains ont été négligés ou piétinés.

[00:12:09.00]

Sherpao

Vous parlez des libertés des terroristes?

[00:12:14.10]

Journaliste

des citoyens

[00:12:15.00]

Sherpao

des terroristes?

[00:12:17.00]

Abdul Hafeez Lakho -avocat défenseur des Droits Humains:

Nous sommes tombés à zéro, maintenant

[00:12:21.00]

Tout ceci se passe réellement. Nous vivons comme des citoyens libres, mais nous ne le sommes pas

[00:12:27.10]

Je ne bouge pas, autrement ils me ramasseront – Pour quel délit ils me ramasseront.

[00:12:31.10]

Quelle mauvaise action ? Si j'ai fait quelque chose qui aura déplu à quelqu'un

[00:12:37.10]

Iqbal Haider - Secrétaire Général, Commission des droits humains du Pakistan:

Je n'arrive pas à trouver les mots qu'il faut

[00:12:39.10]

pour condamner cette pratique de faire disparaître les gens de façon si éhontée

[00:12:45.00]

et de faire souffrir et languir des innocents et de les soumettre à la torture.

[00:12:51.20]

Mon Dieu, il ne peut pas y avoir de barbarie plus inhumaine.

[00:12:57.00]

Ce n'est pas l'ère de la Gerstapo.

[00:13:01.00]

Journaliste

Alors qu'il y a eu une expansion de l'espace des médias au Pakistan

[00:13:03.20]

les attaques contre les journalistes se seont multiplées ces dernières années

[00:13:07.00]

Le Comité poour pa protection des journalistes, un groupe de surveillance basé à New York.

[00:13:10.20]

place le Pakistan parmi les 3 pays où la liberté de la presse est le plus en danger.

[00:13:17.10]

Les reporters sur le terrain .... et Sanjay Kumar (?)

[00:13:20.0]

ont filmé des jets de combat américains qui décollaient d'une base aérienne au Pakistan,

[00:13:24.10]

une base dont le gouvernement avait nié l'utilisation par les USA.

[00:13:27.20]

Ils ont été détenus illégalement pendant 3 mois et torturés.

[00:13:34.10]

Ils ont eu de la chance d'être relâchés

[00:13:35.10]

Femm

[Tranquille, ne pleure plus, tout va bien maintenant]

[00:13:35.24]

Journaliste

mais n'ont pas parlé depuis de ce qu'ils ont subi.

[00:13:37.30]

Femme

[Tranquille, ne pleure pas, chéri, tout va bien maintenant]

[00:13:43.15]

[tout va bien...]

[00:13:49.00]

Tasnim Aslam – Porte-parole du ministère des affaires étrangères du Pakistan

Je n'ai pas connaissance de journaliste qui ait été, hem, enlevé ou...

[00:13:54.00]

Voix qui citent des noms[?]

[00:13:59.30]

Homme

Cela se pass et des journalistes ont été enlevés, je peux vous le dire

[00:14:02.20]

T.Aslam

Je n'ai pas connaissance qu'aucun journaliste ait été persécuté

[00:14:07.30]

Je n'ai connaissance d'acuun cas spécifique – il y a eu un cas d'un journaliste

[00:14:12.10]

who had disappeared - Hayatullah ... [orth?] Lui, euh, malheureusement c'est très triste

[00:14:19.00]

on a retrouvé son cadavre par la suite

[00:14:21.30]

Journaliste

Le journaliste Hayatullah Khan (orth?) avait photographié quelque chose

[00:14:24.00]

dont le gouvernement pakistanais niait l'existenc: des débris d'un missile hellfire américain

[00:14:28.30]

qui avait détruit une maison dans la zone tribale du Pakistan's, tuant plusieurs civils Pakistanais

[00:14:33.10]

et une personne soupçonnée d'être un militant d'Al Qaida.

[00:14:36.20]

Cris

[Tyrans! Répondez du sang que vous avez versé]

[00:14:38.10]

Journaliste

Mais il y a plus de cas que ceux dont le Ministère des affaires étrangères accepte de parler

[00:14:41.10]

d'innombrabls cas de persécution et de détention de journalistes sont documentés.

[00:14:44.20]

Cris

[Artêtez les aggressions contre les journalistes]

[00:14:46.00]

Journaliste

Il y a eu une sonore indignation des journalistes et de mmbres de la société civile

[00:14:50.20]

[Assaut policier au bureau de Geo News – 19 Mars 2007]

[00:14:51.10]

Journaliste

mais les attaques contre la presse ont continué.

[00:14:57.00]

Général (à la retraite) Hameed Gul – Ex-chef de l'ISI (1987-90)

Vous savez que la communauté internationale ne le condamne pas dûrement

[00:15:00.20]

Les Américains ont choisi de se taire sur ce sujet, parce qu'ils ont – parce qu'ils donnent l'exemple,

[00:15:06.10]

ils donnent le "la", ils ont prélevé des gens,

[00:15:11.10]

les ont ammenés à Gunatanamo Bay et à Abu Grahib.

[00:15:15.10]

Des histoires sont sortues, et des camps de torture à Kandahar et ]....?] et il y a toutes sortes d'histoires.

Stories are out, and torture camps in Kandahar and [...?] and all the stories are there.

[00:15:22.30]

Alors fondamentalement, comme leader mondiale comme porte-bannière des Droits Humains,

[00:15:28.20]¨

l'Amérique excelle.

[00:15:29.30]

Puisqu'elle est le leader des Droits humains

[00:15.32.20]

alors évidemment, ses petits davoris, nos gouvernants, peuvent aller jusqu'à n'importe quel point.

[00:15:39.30]

Juge Nasir Aslam Zahid – ex Juge de la Cour Suprême

Si jamais l'aide des agences US et autres au Pakistan devait s'interrompre,

[00:15:45.20]

cela ne serait pas à cause des violations des Droits Humains. Ce serait pour d'autres aisons.

[00:15:52.00]

Ce sera qu'une décision politique aura été prise – mais pas de rejeter le Pakistan (?)

[00:15:56.30]

Ils diront: "Le Pakistan n'est plus un pays nécessaire dans ce processus"

[00:16:02.30]

Ou bien "Le Pakistan a assez fait pour notre victoire en Afghanistan".

[00:16:08.10]

Je crois que le Pakistan sera pénalisé pour cela, et non pour les violations aux droits humains.

[00:16:15.20]

[Amina Masood a déposé une pétition formelle au nom de presque 100 familles de disparus, demandant aux tribunaux de les aider à retrouver leurs chers parents -]

[00:16:21.00]

[Le juge le plus haut placé du Pakistan, Iftikhar Chaudry, chef de la Cour Suprême, a pris le cas en mains et demandé au gouvernement militaire de rendre compte de son rôle dans les disparitions forccées.]

[00:16:27.30]

[En Mars 2007, alors que l'affaire était en cours d'audition, le Général Musharraf a renvoyé le Juge chef and 'a mis aux arrêts domiciliaires.]

[00:16:31.00]

[Le pays a explosé en une série de manifestations violentes qui ont presque renversé le régime de Musharraf...]

[00:16:35.00]

[Voix de manifestants, surtout en Urdu, avec "Go Musharraf Go" en anglais. ]

[00:16:54.10]

Journaliste TV

Aujourd'hui la capitale du Pakistan, Islamabad, est un champ de bataille; des milliers de personnes sont descendues dans la rue pour manifester

[00:17:00.00]

Contre le renvoi du chef de la Cour Suprême, Chaudry Iftikhar.

[00:17:04.30]

Ceci est vu par plus en plus de comme une attaque autocratique au pouvoir judiciaire par un

[00:17:09.20]

chef toujours plus dictatorial

[00:17:11.30]

La société civile s'est indignée en voyant des images du juge de la court suprême traîné par les cheveux

[00:17:16.20]

et maltraité par un policier de bas rang.

[00:17:19.00]

Des milliers de personnes continuent à protester dans tout le pays – des douzaines de gens ont été arrêtés

[00:17:22.30]

Les juges ont quitté les tribunaux, les avocats ont refusé de plaider,

[00:17:26.00]

les partus de l'opposition sont unis dans la condamnation et la presse est partie à l'assaut.

[00:17:31.00]

Une tempête se prépare au Pakistan, maintenant que le dictateur militaire romancé [?] par l'occident

[00:17:31.00]

semble perdre le contrôle

[00:17:37.00]

[voix de manifestants, avec "Go Musharraf Go"]

[00:17:40.00]

[La Maison Blanche a refué de commenter la crise politique, la définissnt:]

[00:17:43.00]

["Une affaire intérieure du peuple du Pakistan"]

[00:17:47.00]

Roedad Khan – Défenseur de l'environnment et fonctionnaire retraité

Pourquoi avez vous montéceci? Le pays de Madison, le pays de Jefferson,

[00:17:55.00]

un peuple qui croyait au gouvrnement du peuple par le peuple pur le peuple -

[00:18:01.30]

Pourquoi soutiennent-ils l'incompétenece? Pourquoi soutiennent-ils l'usurpateur de compétences au Pakistan?

[00:18:07.10]

Ils ont une règle pour eux-mêmes, et une règle pour le peuple du Pakistan

[00:18:12.20]

qui détruit la démocracie. Pourquoi la démocracie s'arrête-t-elle ici?

[00:18:16.20]

Pourquoi n'appliquent-ils pas la démocracie au Pakistan?

[00:18:41.20]

[applaudissements]

[00:18:44.00]

Bush

Merci à tous.

[00:18:45.00]

[applaudissements]

[00:18:48.20]

Bush

Merci, merci pour votre chaleureuse bienvenue.

[00:18:52.00]

Notre stratégie pour la protection de l'Amérique a une prémisse claire:

[00:18:56.10]

la sécurité de notre nation dépend du progrès de la liberté dans d'autres nations.

[00:19:02.20]

Le 11 Septembre 2001, nous avons vu que

[00:19:05.00]

les problèmes nés dans un état en faillite et répressif à 7'000 miles d'ici

[00:19:10.20]

pouvaient amener le meurtre et la destruction à notre pays. Nous avons vu que les dictatures abritent les terroristes,

[00:19:18.10]

nourissent le ressentiment et le radicalisme et menacent la sécurité des nations libres.

[00:19:24.10]

Les démocracies remplacent le ressentiment par l'espoir.

[00:19:28.10]

Les démocracies respectent les droits de leurs citoyens et de leurs voisins,

[00:19:31.20]

Les démocracies participent à la lutte contre le terrorisme.

[00:19:35.10]

Et ainsi, l'Amérique s'engage à un but historique , à long terme:

[00:19:39.20]

pour assurer la paix dans le monde, nous recherchons la fin de la tyrannie dans notre monde

[00:19:47.00]

[Les USA ont constamment soutenu les dictatures militaires qui se sont succédées au Pakistan au cours de 60 ans]

[00:19:58.20]

[Dans tout le pays, des manifestations pour les personnes disparues et en soutien à un pouvoir judiciaire indépendant ont continué pendant 3 mois après le renvoi du chef de la Cour suprême.]

[00:20:04.20]

[Plus de quarante-cinq personnes ont perdu la vie dans les violences politiques qui ont suivi]

[00:20:12.20]

[CAS SIGNALES DE DISPARITIONS FORCEES AU PAKISTAN APRES 2001.. SOUCE: COMMISSION DES DROITS HUMAINS DU PAKISTAN [HRCP] – suivi par leurs noms]

[00:20:29.10]

Ejaz Ahsan Commissaire aux Droits Humains du Pakistan

Ce ne sont pas des chiffres, ce sont des gens

[00:20:37.20]

Juge Nasir Aslam Zahid – ex Juge de la Cour Suprême

I servizi segreti hanno l'audacia di affermare, attraverso rappresentanti del governo,

[00:20:42.20]

di non detenere nessuno..

[00:20:52.00]

Wazi Zafar:

La maggior parte, ehm, questi, questi sono entrati nella guerra da parte de terrorismo

[00:21:03.00]

Iqbal Haider - Secrétaire Général, Commission des droits humains du Pakistan:

Ça ne se fait pas, ce n'est pas acceptable. Ce n'est pas tolérable

[00:21:08.20]

Comment osez vous affirmer avoir le droit de déshabiller l'enfant?

[00:21:17.00]

Aftab Sherpao

Bien sûr, je suis aussi préoccupé.

[00:21:18.00]

Tout le monde est préoccupé si quelqu'un fait tout un foin à propos d'une personne disparue.

[00:21:22.10]

En ce sens, nous somme tous préoccupés.

[00:21:24.10]

Journaliste

Mais quelles mesures le gouvernement prend-il spécifiquement dans le cas des personnes disparues, pour essayer d'en retrouver la trace?

[00:21:31.00]

Sherpao

Que peut faire le gouvernement?

[00:21:31.00]

Le gouvernement peut, vous savez, trouver - ehm, s'il appartient à une province,

[00:21:36.00]

demander au gouvernement provincial, à d'autres...

[00:21:39.00]

Journaliste

c'est le travail du gouvernement.

[00:21:39.25]

Sherpao

Pardon?

[00:21:40.10]

Journ.

c'est le travail du gouvernement.

[00:21:40.10]

Sherpao

C'est le travail du gouvernement mais

[00:21:42.10]

seulement quan d on le signale au gouvernement.

[00:21:50.00]

Ali Dayan

Noud ne pouvons pas accepter un situation où – simplement parce que vus êtes la partie armée -

[00:21:56.10]

signifie que vous pouvez entrer, m'enlever ou me tuer , sans la moindre crainte

[00:22:01.20]

d'une quelconque punition prévue par la loi.

[00:22:20.20]

Roedad Khan

Il y a de l'espoir pour les personnes disparues

[00:22:22.00]

Il y a de l'espoir pour les femmes de ce pays

[00:22:24.00]

Il y a de l'espoir pour les gens du Pakistan

[00:22:26.00]

N'ayez pas d'amertume

[00:22:27.30]

Le pouvoir des sans-pouvoir

[00:22:29.20]

Vous verrez le pouvoir des sans-pouvoir. Très bientôt.

Italiano

[00:00:00.00]

[Scomparire in Pakistan - Duration 00:24:00:03 - Produttore: Ziad Zafar]

[00:00:13.01]

[Appello alla preghiera]

[00:00:23.10]

Giornalista

come la maggior parte delle dittature militari

[00:00:25.10]

Il Pakistan ha una fedina lamentevole per quanto riguarda i diritti umani

[00:00:27.13]

[Appello alla preghiera]

[00:00:29.06]

Da anni il popolo del Pakistano subisce umiliazioni

[00:00:32.10]

e violazioni diffuse dei suoi diritti civili e politici.

[00:00:37.29]

La violenza contro le donne e le minoranze è endemico

[00:00:40.27]

In un sistema che propende alle cacce alle streghe.

[00:00:44.19]

Però il coinvolgimento del Pakistan nella guerra dell'America contro il terrorismo

[00:00:47.24]

ha conferito una dimensione del tutto nuova a queste violazioni.

[00:00:50.28]

Organizzazioni internazionali dei Diritti Umani

[00:00:52.24]

affermano che la guerra ha offerto al governo militare di Islamabad

[00:00:55.17]

una cortina fumogena efficace all'autorizzazione di detenzioni arbitrarie, della tortura

[00:00:59.19 ]

e ha portato ad adottare una nuova tattica sinistra nell'affrontare il dissenso.

[00:01:04.021]

Lo chiamano rapimento sponsorizzato

[00:01:09.24]

Il governo pakistanese ha negato recisamente queste accuse.

[00:01:12.17

Però negli anni recenti centinaia di persone sono semplicemente scomparse.

[00:01:17.29]

Si crede che siano prigioniere dai servizi segreti pakistanesi.

[00:01:27.16]

Alcuni emergono a Guantanamo Bay – Altri sono meno fortunati.

[00:01:33.17]

Rimangono persone scomparse in Pakistan

[00:01:35.10]

[Donna velata: Almeno ditemi cos'era la sua colpa?]

[00:01:38.14]

[Donna anziana: Per l'amor di Dio, ridatemi mio figlio]

[00:01:45.15]

[MISSING IN PAKISTAN / SCOMPARIRE IN PAKISTAN]

[00:01:50.22]

Anjelicka Pathak - Amnesty International

Sappiamo che circa i 2/3 della gente a Guantanamo Bay

[00:01:53.17]

Anjelicka Pathak - Amnesty International

sono stati trasferiti illegalmente dal Pakistan alla detenzione US.

[00:01:57.17]

Molte persone sono scomparse

[00:01:59.27]

in diversi siti segreti in tutto il mondo

[00:02:02.05]

e molti – un numero sconosciuto di persone -

[00:02:05.00]

sono scomparse nel Pakistan stesso.

[00:02:07.02]

Quindi è impossibile dare un numero esatto. Ma ciascuna di esse è una di troppo

[00:02:11.26]

Wasi Zafar – Ministro pakistanese del Diritto, dei Diritti Umani e della Giustizia

È soltanto un romanzo, soltanto un romanzo. Questo, questo non è, questo è una bugia

[00:02:20.01]

Giornalista

La bugia di chi?

[00:02:20.17]

Wasi Zafar

Cos'è? È la bugia di Amnesty International

[00:02:23.00]

Ali Dayan - Human Rights Watch

Nella grande varietà di violazioni dei Diritti Umani

[00:02:30.00]

che abbiamo documentato in Pakistan -

[00:02:32.10]

questo sviluppo è nuovo. Sappiamo che

[00:02:38.04]

le scomparse, come forma di mantenimento dell'ordine

[00:02:43.25]

sono state introdotte in Pakistan dopo la guerra contro il terrorismo

[00:02:49.10]

e questo significa che gli USA hanno avuto – beh, hanno giocato ruolo assolutamente cruciale

[00:03:01.26]

Giornalista

Sì, queste persone

[00:03:04.12]

Wasi Zafar – Minisro pakistanese del Diritto, dei Diritti Umani e della Giustizia

No, queste sono soltanto immagini, soltanto immagini

[00:03:07.06]

Giornalista

queste sono persone vere, sono persone

[00:03:08.08]

W. Zafar

Nooo! Ascolti, no no, ascolti cosa succede.

[00:03:13.10]

Gente come – e ragazzi come lei che sfrutta le cose-

[00:03:18.16]

queste persone sono normalmente attratte dal terrorismo

[00:03:23.50]

fuggono da case, si raggiungono certe organizzazioni,

[00:03:27.12]

scompaiono da sé.

[00:03:30.25]

Giornalista

Ma oltre alle fotografie ci sono vere storie umane

[00:03:34.07]

come quella di Amina Masood, un'insegnante universitaria di 42 anni, e madre di 3 figli.

[00:03:40.13]

Suo marito Masood è scomparso 2 anni fa e non è stato più visto da allora.

[00:03:46.30]

Ingegnere di professione,

[00:03:48.10]

Masood era un predicatore Musulmano "born again"

,

[00:03:51.00]

ma Amina afferma che non era collegato ad alcun gruppo politico.

[00:03:54.00]

Dice di aver capito subito che lui era stato rapito dai servizi segreti.

[00:03:58.10]

Amina Masood

L'ho dato per scontato sin dall'inizio,

[00:04:01.00]

perché questi erano i giorni in cui i giornali erano pieni di notizie del genere

[00:04:07.10]

Il governo stava rastrellando tante migliaia di persone – come in questo tipo di appelli.

[00:04:16.10]

E non gliene importa di cogliere le persone giuste -

[00:04:20.00]

oppure quelle sbagliate

[00:04:22.10]

A loro bastava – bastava accontentare Washington e accontentare, sai,

[00:04:26.10]

Bush e Blair. Era il nuovo scopo del nostro governo.

[00:04:30.20]

Se qualsiasi male è capitato a Masood

[00:04:33.20]

Se la sua salute è stata danneggiata in qualsiasi modo

[00:04:38.10]

Non perdonerò

[00:04:42.00]

Per quanto vivrò non perdonerò.

[00:04:45.20]

Chiederò a questa gente. Sono loro i responsabili.

[00:04:48.20]

E perché, perché una persona così buona viene torturata?

[00:04:52.00]

Perché una persona così buona viene detenuta illegalmente?

[00:04:56.00]

E la famiglia non sa nemmeno – i figli non sanno nemmeno perché

[00:05:01.00]

e perché nostro padre e quando e dove e per quanto tempo?

[00:05:06.00]

È una sfilza di punti di domanda.

[00:05:01.00]

Lo devo trovare ad ogni costo. Lo devo trovare ovunque egli sia,

[00:05:14.00]

Devo riportarlo indietro

[00:05:16.10]

Da quel giorno io non – non ho più avuto riposo.

[00:05:19.30]

Giornalista

Anche se nessun impiegato del governo ha accettato di aiutarla

[00:05:21.00]

Amina ha lavorato presso Amnesty per trovare suo marito

[00:05:24.10]

Ha trovato un forum di azione unita e vi ha portato più di 100 famiglie come la sua

[00:05:27.00]

Donne che ripetono (in Urdu)

[Ridateci i nostri cari]

[00:05:28.20]

Giornalista

per manifestare contro la detensione illegale dei loro parenti

[00:05:32.20]

Però quando hanno provato a manifestare

[00:05:34.00]

Fuori del quartiere generale del potere militare pakistanese,

[00:05:36.20]

Si sono fatti dire di tornare a casa o di affrontare conseguenze sinistre.

[00:05:40.00]

Uomo

Datemi un solo buon motivo (?)

[00:05:44.00]

Giornalista

Quando hanno persistito la manifestazione è stata dispersa

[00:05:46.20]

e molti sono stati arrestati, compreso il figlio 16enne di Amina, Mohamed

[00:06:04.00]

Amina Masood

[Lasciate stare mio figlio]

[00:06:06.00]

Amina Masood

[Mollate mio figlio]

[00:06:09.00]

Poliziotto

[Mettetevi di lato]

[[00:06:11.10]

[grida]

[00:06:17.20]

[Uomo : Ma cosa sstate facendo... Lasciatelo indossare i suoi vestiti]

[[00:06:30.00]

Mohamed:

[Aiuto... Aiuto!]

[00:06:33.00]

Polizio

[Buttatelo dentro ... bastardo viziato]

[00:06:41.00]

Mohamed

[Perché nessuno mi aiuta - Perché nessuno mi aiuta?]

[00:06:56.20]

Amina

[Voglio mio figlio, subito.]

[00:06:58.20]

[mio figlio, lo rivoglio subito]

[00:07:01.20]

Figlia di Amina

[Mamma, per favore, salva mio fratello]

[00:07:02.20]

[ti prego, riportalo]

[00:07:07.20]

[Mamma, per favore, salva mio fratello]

[00:07:09.00]

Amina

[Perché lo avete spogliato?]

[00:07:11.00]

[Bastardi! Crepate crepate crepate, spero che crepiate tutti]

[00:07:13.00]

Amina e sua figlia

[Bastardi! Crepate crepate crepate, spero che crepiate tutti]

[00:07:16.20]

Amina

[Spero che Dio non vi conceda un funerale]

[00:07:19.00]

[Prego che non vi conceda niente]

[00:07:22.10]

[Spero che muoiate tutti]

[00:07:26.00]

[Non osate toccare ai miei figli]

[00:07:30.10]

Amina Masood

Come figlia della nazione, era quello che meritavo?

[00:07:35.20]

Era un reato così grave manifestare, chiedere notizie di mio marito, quando sarebbe tornato

[00:07:41.10]

e qual è il suo reato? Al meno dovrei sapere di che cosa è reo

[00:07:46.00]

perché lo tengono lontano da noi

[00:07:53.30]

Non abbiamo diritti fondamentali?

[00:07:58.20]

Wasi Zafar – Ministro pakistanese del Diritto, dei Diritti Umani e della Giustizia

Sì, sono accuse infondate queste – no no, sono accuse esagerate. Esagerate.

[00:08:06.10]

La parola "business" dico – È lei a dire la parola "business"

[00:08:09.00]

Non ho utilizzato questa parola finora. Voi state utilizzando la parola businesss

[00:08:14.00]

Dico che queste accuse sono esagerate

[00:08:15.30]

Ali Dayan – HRW

Il Pakistan ha un apparato esteso di servizi secreti, un apparato di sicurezza

[00:08:22.20]

giù giù fino al livello del vicinato, in Pakistan,

[00:08:26.10]

si esercita la sorveglianza dei servizi segreti.

[00:08:31.00]

È un fatto della vita in Pakistan. È inevitabile e penso

[00:08:36.00]

che abbiamo superato di gran lunga il punto, in qualsiasi analisi del Pakistan

[00:08:40.10]

o persino in qualsiasi sguardo veloce, affrettato, sul Pakistan

[00:08:44.20]

dove poter negarlo; nessuno lo nega, nemmeno l'esercito lo nega.

[00:08:49.00]

Sono molto candidi sul fatto di avere quel tipo di presenza

[00:08:53.00]

Generale (in pensione) Hameed Gul – (ex capo dell'ISI [servizi segreti pakistanesi] (1987-90)

Sa, si lasciano andare a queste cose

[00:08:56.00]

e ci sono eccessi e avvengono in ogni società.

[00:09:00.00]

Ad esempio della CIA a un certo punto si è detto: "è un governo invisibile".-

[00:09:05.00]

È stato scritto un libro su di loro.

[00:09:07.00]

E similmente tutti servizi segreti – hm, tendono,

[00:09:12.00]

a causa della natura clandestina del loro lavoro

[00:09:16.00]

tendono a superare i limiti, e bisogna trattenerli.

[00:09:20.00]

e al meglio che potevo, ho cercato di educare i miei uomini

[00:09:23.20]

di trattenerli e persino di far loro rimostranze in questi casi

[00:09:29.02]

Ali Dayan – HRW

A Human Rights Watch abbiamo documentato

[00:09:31.30]

abbastanza casi di tortura da parte della polizia, della polizia pakistanes,

[00:09:37.00]

e dei servizi segreti dell'esercito per sapere che si tratta soltanto di un fatto della vita,

[00:09:40.20]

È così, è quel che avviene qui.

[00:09:43.20]

La tortura è diffusa.

[00:09:45.30]

Asma Jahangir – Referente speciale de l'ONU sulla Tortura

e ci sono tante, tantissime prove

[00:09:50.10]

che il governo pakistanese sta mantenendo centri illegali di detenzione

[00:09:54.30]

dove la tortura avviene di routine

[00:10:01.10]

Giornalista:

Ali Hassan è stato detenuto in una cella di tortura per 3 mesi

[00:10:03.20]

e interrogato congiuntamente da agenti segreti americani e pakistanesi

[00:10:08.00]

Nervosamente, ha accettato di parlarci

[00:10:11.20]

però soltatnto a patto che non usassimo il suo vero nome e che non mostrassimo la sua faccia

[00:10:14.00]

Ali Hassan' – vittima di scomparsa forzata e di tortura

[00:10:17.00]

[Ci hanno bendato gli occhi e mesi dei cappucci in testa]

[00:10:19.00]

[poi ci hanno spinto un una macchinar]

[00:10:21.30]

[quando ci hanno tolto le bende dagli occhi eravamo in una cella]

[00:10:25.20]

[Era sottoterra da qualche parte, è tutto quel che posso dire...]

[00:10:29.20]

[Ci hanno torturati in modi diversi]

[00:10:33.00]

[Ci bastonavano sulla pianta dei piedi]

[00:10:37.20]

[Mi tenevano legato e non mi lasciavano dormire...]

[00:10:40.00]

[per fino a 5 giorni di fila a volte.]

[00:10:42.10]

[Mi hanno fatto gli elettroshock due volte]

[00:10:45.20]

[Allacciavano il mio dito e fissavano una pinza sul mio stomaco e facevano passare la corrente da lì.

[00:10:56.10]

La prima volta era insopportabile... Era come se tanta gente ti stesse bastonando.]

[00:11:04.10]

[Poi tornavo cosciente, non era così penoso. La prima volta era quella peggiore.]

[00:11:15.10]

[Continuavano a chiedermi fove avevo nascosto la dinamite. Continuavo a dire che non sapevo.]

[00:11:19.20]

[Non ho mai visto dinamite nella vita vera... l'ho soltanto vista al cinema -]

[00:11:26.00]

Aftab Sherpao – Ministro degli interni pakistanese: Quando si parla di guerra contro il terrorismo, mi sembra, è una guerra di tipo diverso.

[00:11:33.10]

Qui – voi non guardate – guardate tutti – i danni che causano o il terrore che infliggono ad innocenti.

[00:11:43.00]

Siamo in mezzo a quel tipo di situazione dove stiamo combattendo una guerra contro il terrorismo

[00:11:51.00]

Giornalista

Lei dice è che alcune – se non quante ho suggerito -

[00:11:55.20]

che alcune libertà fondamentali sono state vittime di questa guerra contro il terrorismo?

[00:12:00.20]

Sherpao

Cosa intende con "alcune libertà fondamentali sono state--?

[00:12:03.10]

Giornalista

Che certi diritti umani sono stati trascurati o calpestati

[00:12:09.00]

Sherpao

Parla delle libertà dei terroristi?

[00:12:14.10]

Giornalista

dei cittadini

[00:12:15.00]

Sherpao

dei terroristi?

[00:12:17.00]

Abdul Hafeez Lakho – Avvocato specializzato in Diritti Umani:

Abbiamo raggiunto il punto zero

[00:12:21.00]

Tutto questo succede, sì. Viviamo come cittadini liberi, ma non lo siamo

[00:12:27.10]

Non mi muovo o mi arresteranno – per quale reato verrò arrestato,

[00:12:31.10]

Quale malefatta? ... (?) che sarà dispiaciuto a qualcuno

[00:12:37.10]

Iqbal Haider – Segretario generale, Commissione dei Diritti Umani del Pakistan:

Non riesco a trovare parole adatte

[00:12:39.10]

per condannare quel costume di far scomparire persone in modo così palese

[00:12:45.00]

e di far soffrire innocenti, di farli languire, di sottoporli a tortura.

[00:12:51.20]

Oh Dio mio, non vi può essere barbarie più grave, più disumana.

[00:12:57.00]

Non viviamo all'era della Gestapo.

[00:13:01.00]

Giornalista

Mentre il campo dei media si è espanso in Pakistan

[00:13:03.20]

gli attacchi contro i giornalisti sono aumentati negli ultimi anni

[00:13:07.00]

Il Committee to protect Journalists, un osservatorio basato a New York,

[00:13:10.20]

ha classificato il Pakiestan tra i 3 paesi dove la libertà di stampa è più a rischio.

[00:13:17.10]

I reporter sul terreno[...?] Sanjay Kumar [?]

[00:13:20.0]

hanno filmato degli aerei di combattimento US che decollavano da una base all'interno del Pakistan

[00:13:24.10]

di cui il governo negava che fosse utilizzata dagli USA:.

[00:13:27.20]

Sono stati illegalmente detenuti per 3 mesi e torturati.

[00:13:34.10]

Hanno avuto fortuna ad essere stati rilasciati

[00:13:35.10]

Donna

[Va tutto bene, non piangere, è tutto a posto]

[00:13:35.24]

Giornalista

Ma da allora non hanno parlato dai tormenti che hanno vissuto.

[00:13:37.30]

Donna

[Va tutto bene, non piangere, caro, è tutto a posto.]

[00:13:43.15]

[va tutto bene...]

[00:13:49.00]

Tasnim Aslam – Portavoce del ministero degli esteri pakistanese

Non ho conoscenza di alcun giornalista che sia stato, ehm, rapito oppure...

[00:13:54.00]

Voci che citano nomi [?]

[00:13:59.30]

Uomo

Continua e dei giornalisti sono stati [...?] glielo posso dire.

[00:14:02.20]

T.Aslam

Io non ho sentito parlare di qualsiasi giornalista che sia stato, ehm, molestato

[00:14:07.30]

Non ho conoscenza di nessun caso specifico – c'è stato il caso di un giornalista

[00:14:12.10]

che è scomparso – Hayatullah ... Khan. Lui ... purtroppo è stata una cosa molto triste

[00:14:19.00]

il suo cadavere è stato ritrovato in seguito

[00:14:21.30]

Giornalista

Il giornalista Hayatullah Khan ha fotografato qualcosa

[00:14:24.00]

di cui il governo pakistanese diceva che non esisteva: rottami da un missile hell fire US

[00:14:28.30]

che aveva distrutto una casa nell'area tribale del Pakistan, uccidendo diversi civili pakistanesi

[00:14:33.10]

e una persona sospetta di essere militante di Al Qaida

[00:14:36.20]

Grida

[Tiranni! Rispondete del sangue che avete sparso!]

[00:14:38.10]

Giornalista

Però i casi sono più numerosi di quelli che il ministero degli esteri è pronto a discutere -

[00:14:41.10]

innumerevoli casi di persecuzione e di detenzione di giornalisti sono stati documentati.

[00:14:44.20]

Grida

[Fermate le aggressioni contro i giornalisti]

[00:14:46.00]

Giornalista

Vi è stata una protesta sonora da parte di giornalisti e di membri della società civile

[00:14:50.20]

[Assalto della polizia agli uffici di Geo News - 19 marzo 2007]

[00:14:51.10]

Giornalista

ma gli attacchi contro la stampa sono continuati.

[00:14:57.00]

Generale [in pensione] Hameed Gul – ex capo dell'ISI (1986-90)

Sapete che la comunità internazionale non reagisce duramente.

[00:15:00.20]

Gli americani hanno scelto di tacere su questo punto perché hanno dato – perché stanno dando l'esempio

[00:15:06.10]

danno il la: hem, hanno prelevato persone

[00:15:11.10]

le hanno spedite a Gunatanamo Bay e a Abu Grahib.

[00:15:15.10]

Le storie sono uscite, anche sui campi di tortura a Kandahar e [...?] e tutte le storie sono lì.

[00:15:22.30]

Quindi fondamentalmente, come capo mondiale, campione mondiale e portabandiera dei Diritti Umani

[00:15:28.20]

L'America primeggia.

[00:15:29.30]

E quando fa così il campione mondiale dei Diritti Umani

[00:15:32.20]

ovviamente i suoi piccoli protetti che sono i nostri governanti – possono spingersi fino a qualsiasi punto.

[00:15:39.30]

Giudice Nasir Aslam Zahid – Ex giudice della Corte Suprema

Se gli USA e le altre agenzie fermeranno l'aiuto al Pakistan,

[00:15:45.20]

non sarà a causa della violazione dei Diritti Umani, bensì for altri motivi.

[00:15:52.00]

Sarà una decisione di strategia politica, - ma non di condanna (?) del Pakistan

[00:15:56.30]

Diranno: "Il Pakistan non è più un paese necessario in questo procedimento"

[00:16:02.30]

Oppure: "Il Pakistan ha fatto abbastanza per la nostra vittoria in Afghanistan".

[00:16:08.10]

E secondo me il Pakistan verrà penalizzato per qesto, non per la violazione dei Diritti Umani.

[00:16:15.20]

[Amina Masood ha inoltrato una petizione a nome di quasi cento famiglie di persone scomparse che chiedono ai tribunali di aiutarle a trovare i loro cari-]

[00:16:21.00]

[Il giudice supremo del Pakistan, il Giudice capo Iftikhar Chaudry, aveva preso in mano la causa e chiamato il governo militare a rendere conto del suo ruolo delle scomparse forzate.]

[00:16:27.30]

[A marzo 2007, mentre la causa veniva udita (?), il generale Musharraf [dismissed – check] il Giudice capo e lo mise agli arresti domiciliari.]

[00:16:31.00]

[Il paese esplose in una salva di manisfestazioni violenti che quasi fecero cadere il potere di Musharraf...]

[00:16:35.00]

[Voci di manifestanti, soprattutto in Urdu, con "Go Musharraf Go" (via, Musharraf, via) in inglese]

[00:16:54.10]

Giornalista TV

La capitale del Pakistan, Islamabad, è un campo di battaglia oggi, con migliaia di persone in strada a protestare

[00:17:00.00]

Il siluramento del Giudice capo Chaudry Iftikhar.

[00:17:04.30]

È visto da tanti come un attacco autocratico al potere giudiziario da parte di un

[00:17:09.20]

governante sempre più autocratico

[00:17:11.30]

La società civile si è adirata vedendo il Giudice della Corte Suprema trascinato per i capelli

[00:17:16.20]

e malmenato da un poliziotto di basso rango.

[00:17:19.00]

Migliaia di persone continuano a manifestare in tutto il paese – Dozzine di esse sono state arrestate

[00:17:22.30]

I giudici hanno abbandonato i loro scrani, gli avvocati rifiutano di perorare cause in tribunale,

[00:17:26.00]

i partiti dell'opposizione sono uniti nella condanna e la stampa è partita all'assalto.

[00:17:31.00]

Una tempesta si sta preparando in Pakistan mentre il dittatore osannato dall'Occidente

[00:17:31.00]

sembra stia perdendo il controllo

[00:17:37.00]

[voci di manifestanti, con "Go Musharraf Go"]

[00:17:40.00]

[La Casa Bianca ha rifiutato di commentare la crisi politica, definendola:]

[00:17:43.00]

["Un affare interno del popolo pakistanese"]

[00:17:47.00]

Roedad Khan – Ambientalista e funzionario in pensione

Perché avete combinato questo? Il paese di Madison, il paese di Jefferson,

[00:17:55.00]

gente – gente che credeva nel governo del popolo dal popolo per il popolo -

[00:18:01.30]

Perché sostengono l'incapacità? Perché sostengono l'usurpatore di capacità in Pakistan (?)?

[00:18:07.10]

Hanno una regola per se stessi, hanno un'altra regola per il popolo pakistanese

[00:18:12.20]

che uccide la democrazia. Perché la democrazia finisce qui? [?]

[00:18:16.20]

Perché non applicano la democrazia al Pakistan?

[00:18:41.20]

[applausi]

[00:18:44.00]

Bush

Grazie a tutti.

[00:18:45.00]

[applausi]

[00:18:48.20]

Bush

Grazie, grazie per il caloroso benvenuto

[00:18:52.00]

La nostra strategia per proteggere l'America è basata su una premessa chiara:

[00:18:56.10]

la sicurezza della nostra nazione dipende dal progresso della libertà in altre nazioni.

[00:19:02.20]

L'11 settembre 2001 abbiamo visto che

[00:19:05.00]

i problemi nati in uno stato fallito e repressivo a 7'000 miglia da qui

[00:19:10.20]

potevano portare eccidio e distruzione nel nostro paese. Abbiamo visto dittature che proteggevano terroristi,

[00:19:18.10]

che alimentavano il risentimento e il radicalismo, e minacciavano la sicurezza delle nazioni libere.

[00:19:24.10]

Le democrazie sostituiscono la speranza al risentimento.

[00:19:28.10]

Le democrazie rispettano i diritti dei propri cittadini e dei loro vicini,

[00:19:31.20]

Le democrazie si uniscono alla lotta contro il terrorismo.

[00:19:35.10]

Quindi l'America si impegna per un obiettivo storico, a lungo termine:

[00:19:39.20]

per assicurare la pace del mondo, noi cerchiamo la fine della tirannide nel nostro mondo.

[00:19:47.00]

[Gli USA hanno regolarmente sosteuto le dittature militari che si sono alternate per 60 anni in Pakistan]

[00:19:58.20]

[In tutto il paese, manifestazioni per le persone scomparse e a sostegno di un potere giudiziario indipendente hanno continuato per tre mesi dopo il siluramento del giudice capo

[00:20:04.20]

[Oltre 45 persone hanno perso la vita nelle violenze politiche conseguenti]

[00:20:12.20]

[CASI DI SCOMPARSE FORZATE IN PAKISTAN DOPO IL 2001. FONTE: HUMAN RIGHTS COMMISSION OF PAKISTAN [HRCP] – Seguono i nomi]]

[00:20:29.10]

Ejaz Ahsan Commissario ai Diritti Umani del Pakistan

... parlate di persone, non di numeri

[00:20:37.20]

Giudice Nasir Aslam Zahid – ex giudice della Corte Suprema

I servizi segreti hanno la faccia tosta di affermare attraverso funzionari del governo

[00:20:42.20]

di non detenere nessuno.

[00:20:52.00]

Wazi Zafar:

La maggior parte di loro- ehm – fanno la guerra con i terroristi

[00:21:03.00]

Iqbal Haider – Segretario generale,, Human rights Commission of Pakistan

Queste cose non si fanno, non sono accettabili, non sono tollerabili

[00:21:08.20]

Come osate dire "possiamo denudare quel bambino?"

[00:21:17.00]

Aftab Sherpao

Ehm, sono preoccupato anch'io

[00:21:18.00]

Tutti sono preoccupati se c'è qualcuno che solleva un putiferio a proposito di una persona scomparsa.

[00:21:22.10]

In questo senso, siamo tutti preoccupati.

[00:21:24.10]

Giornalista

Ma quali misure specifiche vengono prese dal governo nel caso delle persono scomparse, per cercare di rintracciarle?

[00:21:31.00]

Sherpao

Cosa può fare il governo?

[00:21:31.00]

Il governo può, sa, accertare – ehm – se appartiene a una provincia,

[00:21:36.00]

chiedere a l governo provinciale, da altri

[00:21:39.00]

Giornalista

È il compito del governo

[00:21:39.25]

Sherpao

Scusi?

[00:21:40.10]

Journ.

È il compito del governo

[00:21:40.10]

Sherpao

È il compito del governo, ma soltanto se la cosa viene portata a conoscenza del governo.

[00:21:42.10]

No, quando è a proposito - (?...)

[00:21:50.00]

Ali Dayan

Non possiamo accettare una situazione dove, soltanto perché voi siete il partito armato -

[00:21:56.10]

potete venire, sequestrarmi o uccidermi, senza temere

[00:22:01.20]

qualsiasi conseguenza legale.

[00:22:20.20]

Roedad Khan

C'è seperanza per le persone scomparse

[00:22:22.00]

C'è speranza per le donne di questo paese

[00:22:24.00]

C'è speranza per il popolo del Pakistan

[00:22:26.00]

Non siate amari

[00:22:27.30]

Il potere dei senza potere

[00:22:29.20]

Vedrete il potere dei senza potere. Molto presto